IWSF TC Issue

IWSF Tournament Council Issue: 576
Next Videoconference meeting
Date Opened 2019-01-04
Date Closed 2019-09-01
See all other issues
Here is the issue


I would like to schedule or follow-on meeting for Jan 16 - same time 17:00 New York time.
Bruce has already said he is not available in January but will submit written notes.
Please let me know if you are not available.

The agenda is:
10) Divisional Record at R tournaments:
12) Score above Record
13) Over 35 shortening speed
14) Over 35 divisions age category change
15) Ranking List specification
18) Slalom Course Buoys names:
20) World L1 exams:

Added - Rule 1.05 distribution of Rule Changes

Thank you.

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2019-01-05
Gill Hill has read the issue and has no comment
2019-01-06
Candido Moz comments: I\'m available. we need to add
Canada Appeals on 2015 PAN AM games, I will compile all the file today so you can post them as an attachments.
2019-01-06
Ryan Dodd comments: I would like to also include a proposal to modify jump ramp tolerances.
Nothing to extreme for now but a step in the right direction for safety.
We will attach a formal proposal with specifics from the athletes.
Thanks
2019-01-09
Dimos Alexopoulos comments: Time is ok for me (12 at night Greek time)
2019-01-10
Geoffrey Kee has read the issue and has no comment
2019-01-10
Stian Lilleberg comments: I am replacing Nigel for this meeting too, he is unable to participate. Time is OK for me (23:00 Norwegian time)

2019-01-11
Robert Ritter has read the issue and has no comment
2019-01-12
Nigel Talamo comments: I will be unavailable for this but Stian Lilleberg has agreed to stand in once again. I wish you a fruitful meeting.
2019-01-14
Manon Costard comments: I will be available
2019-01-15
Hannu Rintanen has read the issue and has no comment
2019-01-15
Ryan Dodd comments: I am looking forward to the meeting tomorrow. The new 6 ft jump ramp length tolerance proposal and supporting letter has been submitted to Bob Corson on behalf of the 6 ft men’s Jumpers.
Thanks 
2019-01-15
Ryan Dodd comments: Proposal to Increase Length Tolerances on the 6 ft ramp.
 
This proposal is put forth by the Athlete representatives, and the Majority of the Mens 6 foot jumpers, including each of those presently ranked in the top 10 in the most recent elite rankings list of IWWF.
 
A statistical reality is that the number of elite 6 foot jumpers is significantly decreasing   every year. It is most assuredly a big step to transition from 5.5 to 6 which clearly limits those willing to risk the many significant injuries commonly occasioned by elite jumping at a 6 foot ramp. And the reality of life is that with the speed and intensity at which elite 6 foot jumpers are now hitting the ramp, coupled with the incredible and significant strength of newer boats, the impact,  demand and associated risk to ones health  has grown commensurately . This increased risk has, as borne out by the statistics, adversely effected participation, consistency, and the depth of field in major competitions. We would suggest that this is contrary to the best interests of the sport as a whole.
 
It stands to reason that where the top athletes in the world in our sport are finding it challenging, and frankly frightening to compete with these increased risks, let alone train on  a daily basis to somewhat prepare for the increased risks, it is difficult to develop younger participants to drive the future of the sport.  And accordingly, we would respectfully suggest that after much consideration and, quite literally thousands of collective jumps of testing so as to establish empirically provable markers, that it is in the best interests of athlete safety and the future growth of the sport, to increase the tolerance on the length of the jump ramp.
 
Our suggestion as set forth below is an effort to enable more skiers to be able to safely compete on the 6 foot ramp, promote participation and enhance the sport as a whole. With the added length we propose, there will be more flexibility within the tolerance, and allow one to set the ramp to a safer angle for participants. The increase in length will enable jumpers to produce safer jumps at sites that aren’t perfect. And correspondingly, this will open doors to allow for greater participation, in the sport allowing athletes to safely compete at a high level at more sites in a variety of conditions and countries. This is great for the sports future as it promotes growth. 

The fact of the matter is that for safety reasons the top 6 foot jumpers in the world rarely train on a ramp within the current tolerance. Simply stated, on a daily basis the impact on the body risk of catastrophic injury too great
 
We would love to be able to jump a full 6 foot at all times but the reality is the health risk is simply too great.  This fear, and its corresponding safety risk, would be significantly abated by the acceptance of our proposal to allow the length of the jump to be longer.
 
Accordingly, we propose as follows so as to open up the tolerance on length and lower the suggested angle.
 
We propose to keep the minimum length to a 6.7 m to ensure all ramps can still be within the tolerance.  We propose to increase the maximum to a length of 7.15 m.  We would not expect ramps to change. Rather, we are simply suggesting the opportunity for jump ramps to be longer and yet remain within the existing rules.
 
We understand that all ramps are not capable of handling the longer length tolerance at present. However, it is our collective, and significant, experience that many ramps all over throughout the world are capable of this simple adjustment for the safety of participants and the attraction of new blood to our sport. .
 
In conclusion, we firmly believe given our collective jump experience at an elite level which reflects more than a century of elite jumping experience, that the longer ramp will make it easier for up and coming jumpers to transition to pro jumping from the U-21 ranks, and allow Pro Jumpers to compete at an elite level for longer, as this will greatly reduce the impact on the body. The depth of field will increase, and we will have a higher level of competition and participation at major events.
 
Supporters of this proposal include athletes such as;
Scot Ellis, Igor Morozov, Freddy Krueger, Ryan Dodd, Felipe Miranda, Claudio Kostenberger, Zack Worden, Taylor Garcia, Tom Asher to name a few.
 
We thank you all for what you do for the sport of waterskiing and having the sports best interest at heart.
 
Sincerely, TC Athlete Reps representing the Mens Jump Field.
2019-01-16
Bruce Cockburn comments: As I cannot make the meeting Wayne Briant will be replacing me as an A&O rep
2019-01-16
Christophe Duverger comments: great idea, i agree for the ramps even if i think it will be hard to apply this rule in most of the countries...

you are talking about safety and interest in the jumping event.... don\'t you think boat increasing power is also a thing to control for safety and grows of the sport world wide? 
 i understand pro skiers who are supporting there boat compagnies and ask to be pulled by there boats to set records and wins in pro events....but the thing is jumping is loosing interest among a lot of skiers and coaches who cannot have access to this kind of boat because too expensive! (i am talking about Europe...) don\'t you think it is time to set a maximum boat engine power for amateurs so the skiers all around the world have the same chances to perform and be evaluated and ranked on the same bases...?
don\'t you think we could draw a line between pros and amateurs ? 
2019-01-16
Bob Corson comments: Ryan sent me his proposal with a chart.  I took this chart and superimposed it on the current jump chart.
Ryan\'s Chart
http://www.iwsf.com/iwsftc/2019/6%20Ft%20Jump%20Setting%20Chart.pdf
combined chart
http://www.iwsf.com/iwsftc/2019/rampproposal.jpg

2019-01-16
Bob Corson comments: In our meeting tonight, once again, I am not sure that we will complete the agenda with the added items.  I propose that we have a separate meeting for the discussion of the Pan Am Games issue. 
2019-01-16
Bob Corson comments: Documents for Pan Am Games Review meeting to be scheduled
http://www.iwsf.com/iwsftc/2019/PAGReview/
2019-01-16
Jacinta Carroll comments: HI All,
I have clients booked in so cannot attend the meeting.
As for the jump ramp discussion - As female WR holder and World Champion I don\'t even train on a full height or intolerance ramp. My body simply cant handle it.
Currently I have my ramp set at 6.9m long and only 168cm height - this is way out of tolerance however it means I can train. I do make this closer to actual prior to an event however for longevity in the sport I believe its a great proposal for the men and may be required for the women.
As for ramps being able to complete this requirement - in the rule book it is highlighted/recommended to set the ramp between 6.75-6.8.....so surely each ramp has at least 20cm of length they can gain ? And if at worst possible scenario they cant lengthen further we have kept 6.8 to be within the rules. So this allows lake/ramp owners to increase tolerance to gain better and bigger jumpers more often, but also does allow for all ramps to still be able to be in tolerance.
Replied
Gill Hill - Commented
Candido Moz - Commented
Ryan Dodd - Commented
Dimos Alexopoulos - Commented
Geoffrey Kee - Commented
Stian Lilleberg - Commented
Robert Ritter - Commented
Nigel Talamo - Commented
Manon Costard - Commented
Hannu Rintanen - Commented
Bruce Cockburn - Commented
Christophe Duverger - Commented
Bob Corson - Commented
Jacinta Carroll - Commented
Not Replied
Jeffry Armstrong
Robin Wright
Glen Williams*
Jose Antonio Perez Priego
Larry Gisler*
Hanifah Yoong Yin Fah
Sergio Font*
Javier Julio
Felix Loreto
Wayne Briant
Donal Connolly
Paul Fong
Corey Vaughn
Ricardo Botas
Santiago Correa
Mario Pigozzi
Richard Carlson
James Timothy
Georgi Renosto
Dana Garcia*
Peter Frei
Martin Kolman*
Gavin Kelly*
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