IWSF TC Issue

IWSF Tournament Council Issue: 256
Elite Athletes as Judges - Finalization
Date Opened 2011-11-13
Date Closed 2019-09-01
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Here is the issue


OK, I want to recap where we are on this issue and present some additional specifics.
Our original meeting decision was to restrict the panel to no more than 50% of 
Elite Athlete Judges for R tournaments pending a definition of Athlete Judges.

We are really talking about the USA program to "fast track" top skiers as judges.  The skiers must pass the Senior Judge's written and video exams just like any other Senior Judge.  What they are not required to do is to gain judging experience through the normal judge training and progression cycle which takes several years.

To be specific, here is a list of skiers who have gone through this program:
http://www.iwsf.com/iwsftc/2011/FastTrackJudges.pdf
You can see that this list represents 10 countries.

Also attached here is a list of sites where these fast track judges have been part of the panel:
http://www.iwsf.com/iwsftc/2011/RecordSites-EliteAthletes.pdf


Having this specific set of individuals defined, we can now finalize this issue and decide if this is how we want to handle it.  In essence, we are defining a new category of appearance of conflict of interest for these specific individuals.  Also we are modifying the essence of conflict of interest 
in that the appearance of conflict of interest does not prohibit them from judging, it prohibits a majority of the panel of being made up of individuals on the list.

This vote will finalize the issue for the 2012 Rules.  A Yes vote will put in this specific restriction on this specific list of individuals.  A No vote will leave the rules unchanged in this area.

To be honest, I am not sure that we had an informed enough discussion at our meeting for such a major change and feel that it would be best to vote No at this point and revisit it if desired at our next TC meeting.

Please vote to finalize this issue.
Thank you.
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2011-11-13
Kuno Ritschard has read the issue and has no comment
2011-11-13
Ron Fergusson comments: This proves to me that the Conflict of Interest is a shambles, scrap it and allow 3 judges and 2 judges or 2 judges and 1 judge, all  under the control of the Chief Judge.  YES TO THIS DECISION.
Ron Fergusson is not voting at this time
2011-11-14
Esteban Siegert comments: Bruce, so you don\'t agree with the conflict rule but are voting YES to add another rule further adding to the conflict scenario? Or did you mean to vote no?
Thanks
2011-11-14
Bruce Cockburn comments: Esteban I have not voted on this issue yet but am going to vote No I don\'t think we should change thr rule
Bruce Cockburn votes NO
2011-11-14
Peter Person has read the issue and has no comment
Peter Person votes NO
2011-11-15
Esteban Siegert comments: Sorry Bruce, I don\'t know why I asked you! We were thinking about Mitch the other day so
I\'ll blame it on that!
I meant to ask Ron instead!!
2011-11-17
Jeffry Armstrong comments: I remain with a NO  to this issue and would have been against it at the meeting, if I had been able to be there.
Jeffry Armstrong votes NO
2011-11-17
Aaron Larkin comments: I am a absolute NO on this issue.
2011-11-18
Esteban Siegert has read the issue and has no comment
2011-11-18
Jeffry Armstrong comments: I would point out that some of the athletes on the list have taken the Pan Am Test......not fast tracked on AWSA
Jeffry Armstrong is not voting at this time
2011-11-21
Ron Fergusson comments: Scrap the Conflict uf Interest rule,use 3 non conflict Judges and 2 conflict Judges, or 2 non conflict Judges and 1 conflict Judge all under the control of the Chief Judge. This rule was broughtin many years ago with 5 minutes discussion at the conclusion of the meeting, the AAO committee at that time were very much against it, and now with the problem of skiers judging other skiers, it is time it was scrapped. This is a simple answer to the whole problem.
Ron Fergusson is not voting at this time
2011-11-22
Gill Hill comments: Bob, thanks for providing the list of fast tracked skiers - a system we also have in Europe.  Also the list of sites where the athlete judges were used.  So this is not especially an issue for small countries, as all of these appear to be in the USA.  
I think the E&A council still feel that to have the majority of the panel made up of athlete judges does appear to be a conflict of interest.  
I think however that we have to accept that we need more time to discuss this at our next meeting and for us all to understand the full issues.   Please do not forget the suggestion was never to NOT ALLOW athlete judges, we know we need them.   It was merely that they should not be IN THE MAJORITY on the panel.  For now I cannot vote, but eventually would agree to leave this until our next meeting for finalisation.  
Gill Hill is not voting at this time
2011-11-23
Candido Moz comments: see Gill comment
Candido Moz is not voting at this time
2011-11-23
Stefan Rauchenwald comments: See comments of Gill.
Stefan Rauchenwald is not voting at this time
2011-11-23
Hannu Rintanen has read the issue and has no comment
2011-11-23
Stian Lilleberg has read the issue and has no comment
2011-11-24
Larry Gisler has read the issue and has no comment
2011-11-25
Bob Corson comments: I would like to bring this issue to some conclusion.  You can vote yes if you want to implement or no if you don\'t.  You may also abstain but the issue will require 6 yes votes to pass.
Certainly this issue will be raised again at our next meeting.
Thank you.
Bob Corson is not voting at this time
2011-11-26
Brian Woolley has read the issue and has no comment
2011-11-26
Jeffry Armstrong comments: If one has already voted, then, we don\'t need to vote again, correct??
Jeffry Armstrong votes NO
2011-11-27
Ron Fergusson comments: No,Enough said.
Ron Fergusson votes NO
2011-11-30
Bob Corson comments: We have 4 NO votes and Gill expressed the need for more discussion at a future meeting and Candido and Stefan agreed.  Therefore I will vote NO for 5 NO votes to conclude this issue topic and remand it to our next meeting.
Bob Corson votes NO
2011-11-30
Esteban Siegert has read the issue and has no comment
2011-12-01
Ageliki Andriopoulou comments: Athletes do not want this.
Ageliki Andriopoulou votes NO
2011-12-01
Murray Eade comments: I believe this really does need readdressing it is not about skier judges it is about conflict
Murray Eade votes NO

Non-voting members who have
commented and
Voting members who have Voted
Jose Antonio Perez Priego - Commented
Ryan Dodd - Commented
Bruce Cockburn - voted No
Peter Person - voted No
Jeffry Armstrong - voted No
Jacinta Carroll - Commented
Hannu Rintanen - Commented
Stian Lilleberg - Commented
Larry Gisler - Commented
Bob Corson - voted No
Glen Williams - voted No
Non-voting members who have
not commented and
Voting members(*) who have not Voted
Gill Hill
Candido Moz*
Dimos Alexopoulos*
Robin Wright
Hanifah Yoong Yin Fah
Sergio Font*
Javier Julio
Felix Loreto
Nigel Talamo
Geoffrey Kee*
Wayne Briant
Donal Connolly
Paul Fong
Corey Vaughn
Ricardo Botas
Santiago Correa
Mario Pigozzi
Richard Carlson
Robert Ritter
James Timothy
Georgi Renosto
Dana Garcia*
Peter Frei
Martin Kolman*
Gavin Kelly*